Behold, another awe-inspiring table!
After my post about Disney's animated animal sidekicks, the idea that most attracted me was doing my own villains list. I know, I know, I lose a lot of hipster cred doing something so totally mainstream ;) I still think it is an interesting exercise trying to quantify WHY certain villains stand out. Descriptions below the break, and as always I am open to discussion, improvements, and filling in gaps for movies I don't remember well enough.
It turns out that 2 villains stand out far and above the rest, with 7 more also notably triumphing (>65 points) over other, mediocre villains (35-51). At the bottom, 5 fell far short of the others (<30)
Top Two (tied at 84/90)
Other villains who scored at least 65
Are you as surprised as I am that every one of the Top 10 either wears a black hat or has pointy hair? I will also point out that Jafar, Scar, Prince John, and Gov. Ratcliffe sport evil goatees, while Hook, Shan Yu, and Merlock have evil pointy mustaches. It is rumored that Ursula has a faint, evil mustache as well, but that they photoshopped it out at her request.
Updated: Added Ending
5 most pitiful Disney villains. Let's face it, they were overthrown by mice, dogs, and a bunny. Not supervillain material.
How were villains scored?
1. Their cunning, their ability to deceive and manipulate others to do their will. Villains who are little more than thugs -who go in and break things - score 0. Maleficent's lack of style, finesse, or cunning is one of the two things keeping her from the top tier. The other is that she doesn't have a song.
2. Their strength: physical, magical, technological, or legal. How worried would I be if I got on their bad side? I tend to think villains with magical or tech powers are stronger than the merely physically or legally powerful, but on the other hand Facilier's henchmen (shadows) are more powerful than he is.
3. How evil are they? At a 10 they take delight in seriously harming others - lots of murder and torture of innocent bystanders. 5-8 they are willing to let innocents suffer or die for their goals, but don't necessarily delight in it and are willing to kill. If a villain is not willing to kill, they score below a 5. Low scores mean they are primarily counted as a villain because they block or have a grievance with the main character but are otherwise "mostly harmless."
4. I discovered doing this that a lot of Disney villains don't actually have a plan for how they intend to achieve their goals. They just do stuff as opportunities present themselves. The ability to have a REASONABLE plan (I'm looking at you, Shadow Man - have your henchman marry the Queen of the Mardi Gras to control her daddy's fortune and that will let you turn all of New Orleans to the dark side? Say what??) is apparently an elite characteristic. The only villain not in the top 10 with reasonable plan-making capabilities is Randall Boggs, and even he is more of a henchman to Henry J. Waternoose. If you would rather have Waternoose than Randall in the list, he gets mostly the same scores: 8 5 7 8 0 6 4 _ 6 for a total of 44. HOWEVER, once Monsters U comes out, he will get a bonus 5 for being voiced by Kelsey Grammar [see below] and we'll see how his other numbers change. He might enter the top 10.
5. Do they have a good evil villain song? Poor Unfortunate Soul, Friends on the Other Side, and Hellfire/Heaven's Light do a magnificent job of not only letting the villain wallow in it a bit and reveal their evil plan, but actually move the plot forward. Scar's Be Prepared and Ratigan's premature triumph songs accomplish the first two but not the latter goal and I have never tried to sing either for fun. I was surprised how few Disney villains have a meaty song. Jafar only gets a reprise, and Gaston and Ratcliffe share their big numbers. That's about it. I don't know enough about Hercules to include Hades, but his song is pretty weak too.
6. Capable. Do their evil plans actually work? I measured how inept the villain is and then reversed the score. Prince John and Brer Fox are constantly outwitted. Sir Hiss even tells the crown, "Your plans never work." On the other hand, Ursulla, Ratigan, Maleficent and others carry through their plans perfectly and temporarily achieve their designs. Lotso has been in charge of Sunnyside for a long time and Jafar is second in command.
7. Most villains are only as good as their henchmen. If you are really going to win, you're going to be able to attract significant help: Maleficent, Shan Yu, and Hopper have armies under their command; Jafar, Syndrome, and Maleficent have a henchman who is intelligent and brings their plans forward of their own volition. Then you have Judge Doom, Scar, and Brer Fox who might actually be successful sometime if it weren't for their stupid henchmen failing them left and right.
I was initially open to the idea that villains who do their own dirty work ought to get some credit (eg. Gothel), but if you can't even attract a couple comic relief henchmen, how impressive can you really be?
8. Bonus points for attracting a favorite (5) or celebrated (3) actor. Vincent Price, Christopher Lloyd, Kelsey Grammar ... just knowing they're the villain lends it credibility. Personally, I think having George C. Scott as the villain is the single best thing about Rescuers Down Under. 2 bonus points if I gave the acting ability itself a little extra credit, even if the actor is primarily known because of this movie (Ursula, Jafar, and Hook).
Updated (suggestion by Mark Nichols): 9. How did the character meet his/her timely end? The highest score requires spectacular defeats. If they flee or are humiliated, they only receive a 2. Falling is too cliche: 2. Arrested is 3. Anyone still living scores an extra 2 points. If nothing happens to them, they score highly.
The surprising thing is that the best endings are for the best AND WORST villains. Only one of the bottom 10 dies, and even that is questionable. Meanwhile, only two of the top ten survive (Jafar is captured spectacularly and Hook flees) and only one has a disappointing end (Syndrome sucked into a jet engine anti-climactically). Shan Yu's fireworks would score higher, except he was one of only two villains killed by the comic relief, which has got to be very humiliating. Chef Skinner, as the only victorious villain, scores 10, pulling him out of the bottom 5.
10. Separate from the actor, how much do I "like" the character? I'm pleased to note that my score doesn't change the order much, though it does save Stinky Pete from joining the bottom 6.
11. Sum - add it all up and that's your score.
12. Chronological order.. May I suggest that one reason the Disney Renaissance became a Renaissance was great villains?
Judge Doom counts because he is animated part of the time. Queen Narissa belongs but I will again plead less familiarity with Enchanted until someone fills her in for me.
After my post about Disney's animated animal sidekicks, the idea that most attracted me was doing my own villains list. I know, I know, I lose a lot of hipster cred doing something so totally mainstream ;) I still think it is an interesting exercise trying to quantify WHY certain villains stand out. Descriptions below the break, and as always I am open to discussion, improvements, and filling in gaps for movies I don't remember well enough.
It turns out that 2 villains stand out far and above the rest, with 7 more also notably triumphing (>65 points) over other, mediocre villains (35-51). At the bottom, 5 fell far short of the others (<30)
Top Two (tied at 84/90)
Other villains who scored at least 65
Are you as surprised as I am that every one of the Top 10 either wears a black hat or has pointy hair? I will also point out that Jafar, Scar, Prince John, and Gov. Ratcliffe sport evil goatees, while Hook, Shan Yu, and Merlock have evil pointy mustaches. It is rumored that Ursula has a faint, evil mustache as well, but that they photoshopped it out at her request.
Updated: Added Ending
| Cunn | Str | Evil | Plan | Song | Able | Hench | Actor | End | DW | Sum | Chron | |
| Ursula | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 2 | 8 | 10 | 84 | 14 |
| Jafar | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 4 | 9 | 10 | 2 | 10 | 10 | 84 | 18 |
| Dr. Facilier | 8 | 6 | 10 | 5 | 10 | 7 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 74 | 33 | |
| Prof. Rattigan | 10 | 6 | 10 | 10 | 6 | 10 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 71 | 12 |
| Claude Frollo | 10 | 8 | 8 | 2 | 10 | 7 | 6 | 10 | 10 | 71 | 22 | |
| Judge Doom | 10 | 7 | 10 | 8 | 0 | 10 | 4 | 5 | 8 | 6 | 68 | 13 |
| Syndrome | 8 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 0 | 7 | 10 | 5 | 10 | 67 | 29 | |
| Scar | 10 | 6 | 10 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 8 | 8 | 66 | 19 |
| Maleficent | 2 | 10 | 10 | 7 | 0 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 8 | 65 | 6 | |
| Captain James Hook | 8 | 7 | 9 | 6 | 0 | 2 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 10 | 56 | 5 |
| Lots-O'-Huggin Bear | 10 | 0 | 7 | 4 | 0 | 10 | 8 | 4 | 6 | 49 | 35 | |
| Percival C. McLeach | 8 | 4 | 7 | 2 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 49 | 16 |
| Gothel | 8 | 0 | 7 | 4 | 10 | 7 | 0 | 7 | 6 | 49 | 34 | |
| Charles Muntz | 10 | 4 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 10 | 3 | 2 | 6 | 48 | 32 |
| Shan Yu | 3 | 9 | 10 | 2 | 0 | 10 | 10 | 2 | 2 | 48 | 24 | |
| Randall Boggs | 8 | 8 | 7 | 7 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 5 | 6 | 46 | 28 | |
| Hopper | 0 | 6 | 7 | 2 | 0 | 8 | 10 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 45 | 25 |
| Merlock (Ducktales) | 4 | 10 | 9 | 4 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 42 | 15 |
| Queen Grimhilde (SW) | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 6 | 42 | 1 | |
| Prince John | 2 | 8 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 38 | 9 |
| Red Queen | 0 | 8 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 8 | 8 | 2 | 37 | 4 | |
| Gaston | 4 | 4 | 6 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 36 | 17 | |
| Shere Khan | 4 | 9 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 36 | 8 | |
| Gov Ratcliffe | 2 | 6 | 5 | 0 | 4 | 2 | 8 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 36 | 20 |
| Stinky Pete | 7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 5 | 4 | 8 | 35 | 27 |
| Lady Tremaine | 6 | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 32 | 3 | |
| Chef Skinner | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 10 | 4 | 28 | 30 |
| Cruella de Vil | 2 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 0 | 22 | 7 | |
| Madame Medusa | 0 | 2 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 21 | 10 | |
| Brer Fox | 4 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 6 | 4 | 21 | 2 | |
| Sid Phillips | 0 | 0 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 8 | 0 | 20 | 21 |
5 most pitiful Disney villains. Let's face it, they were overthrown by mice, dogs, and a bunny. Not supervillain material.
How were villains scored?
1. Their cunning, their ability to deceive and manipulate others to do their will. Villains who are little more than thugs -who go in and break things - score 0. Maleficent's lack of style, finesse, or cunning is one of the two things keeping her from the top tier. The other is that she doesn't have a song.
2. Their strength: physical, magical, technological, or legal. How worried would I be if I got on their bad side? I tend to think villains with magical or tech powers are stronger than the merely physically or legally powerful, but on the other hand Facilier's henchmen (shadows) are more powerful than he is.
3. How evil are they? At a 10 they take delight in seriously harming others - lots of murder and torture of innocent bystanders. 5-8 they are willing to let innocents suffer or die for their goals, but don't necessarily delight in it and are willing to kill. If a villain is not willing to kill, they score below a 5. Low scores mean they are primarily counted as a villain because they block or have a grievance with the main character but are otherwise "mostly harmless."
4. I discovered doing this that a lot of Disney villains don't actually have a plan for how they intend to achieve their goals. They just do stuff as opportunities present themselves. The ability to have a REASONABLE plan (I'm looking at you, Shadow Man - have your henchman marry the Queen of the Mardi Gras to control her daddy's fortune and that will let you turn all of New Orleans to the dark side? Say what??) is apparently an elite characteristic. The only villain not in the top 10 with reasonable plan-making capabilities is Randall Boggs, and even he is more of a henchman to Henry J. Waternoose. If you would rather have Waternoose than Randall in the list, he gets mostly the same scores: 8 5 7 8 0 6 4 _ 6 for a total of 44. HOWEVER, once Monsters U comes out, he will get a bonus 5 for being voiced by Kelsey Grammar [see below] and we'll see how his other numbers change. He might enter the top 10.
5. Do they have a good evil villain song? Poor Unfortunate Soul, Friends on the Other Side, and Hellfire/Heaven's Light do a magnificent job of not only letting the villain wallow in it a bit and reveal their evil plan, but actually move the plot forward. Scar's Be Prepared and Ratigan's premature triumph songs accomplish the first two but not the latter goal and I have never tried to sing either for fun. I was surprised how few Disney villains have a meaty song. Jafar only gets a reprise, and Gaston and Ratcliffe share their big numbers. That's about it. I don't know enough about Hercules to include Hades, but his song is pretty weak too.
6. Capable. Do their evil plans actually work? I measured how inept the villain is and then reversed the score. Prince John and Brer Fox are constantly outwitted. Sir Hiss even tells the crown, "Your plans never work." On the other hand, Ursulla, Ratigan, Maleficent and others carry through their plans perfectly and temporarily achieve their designs. Lotso has been in charge of Sunnyside for a long time and Jafar is second in command.
7. Most villains are only as good as their henchmen. If you are really going to win, you're going to be able to attract significant help: Maleficent, Shan Yu, and Hopper have armies under their command; Jafar, Syndrome, and Maleficent have a henchman who is intelligent and brings their plans forward of their own volition. Then you have Judge Doom, Scar, and Brer Fox who might actually be successful sometime if it weren't for their stupid henchmen failing them left and right.
I was initially open to the idea that villains who do their own dirty work ought to get some credit (eg. Gothel), but if you can't even attract a couple comic relief henchmen, how impressive can you really be?
8. Bonus points for attracting a favorite (5) or celebrated (3) actor. Vincent Price, Christopher Lloyd, Kelsey Grammar ... just knowing they're the villain lends it credibility. Personally, I think having George C. Scott as the villain is the single best thing about Rescuers Down Under. 2 bonus points if I gave the acting ability itself a little extra credit, even if the actor is primarily known because of this movie (Ursula, Jafar, and Hook).
Updated (suggestion by Mark Nichols): 9. How did the character meet his/her timely end? The highest score requires spectacular defeats. If they flee or are humiliated, they only receive a 2. Falling is too cliche: 2. Arrested is 3. Anyone still living scores an extra 2 points. If nothing happens to them, they score highly.
The surprising thing is that the best endings are for the best AND WORST villains. Only one of the bottom 10 dies, and even that is questionable. Meanwhile, only two of the top ten survive (Jafar is captured spectacularly and Hook flees) and only one has a disappointing end (Syndrome sucked into a jet engine anti-climactically). Shan Yu's fireworks would score higher, except he was one of only two villains killed by the comic relief, which has got to be very humiliating. Chef Skinner, as the only victorious villain, scores 10, pulling him out of the bottom 5.
10. Separate from the actor, how much do I "like" the character? I'm pleased to note that my score doesn't change the order much, though it does save Stinky Pete from joining the bottom 6.
11. Sum - add it all up and that's your score.
12. Chronological order.. May I suggest that one reason the Disney Renaissance became a Renaissance was great villains?
Judge Doom counts because he is animated part of the time. Queen Narissa belongs but I will again plead less familiarity with Enchanted until someone fills her in for me.
Perhaps a more fair criterion for villains would be "voice" as opposed to "song" since they are far more unlikely to get a song of their own compared to the heroes but their voice is still a vital defining part of the character. Of course, in some cases, that might be factored in already in part under Actor.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a thought re: Lady Tremaine. Any parent who emotionally abuses their enslaved stepdaughter with a grin on their face deserves WAY more than 2 on the evil scale. Besides, she's called the Wicked Stepmother for a reason.
ReplyDeleteRe: Lady Tremaine - Yes, villains are evil. That's the nature of the job. There are very few Disney villains who are genuinely complex characters who might not appear all that evil when looked at the in the right light.
ReplyDeleteSo the comparison I made is on what they are willing to do to accomplish their goals. It's nearly all shades of black - how many innocents, how much suffering, how much enjoyment in it ... . Tremaine is not willing to kill and that keeps her firmly below a 5. Her only victim is the main character and that also keeps her score rather low.
I'm also not 100% convinced her behavior constitutes abuse or enslavement. Is she unfair in dealing out household chores and privileges? Certainly.
"For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?" (D&C 38:26)
Is making her a servant slavery or abuse? I'm not thoroughly convinced. Does she take pleasure in it? Yes, and on that point I really ought to give her and Brer Fox one more evil point. If she had more power, would she be a terrible tyrant? Yes. But she isn't and I don't feel comfortable placing her up with murderers, soul-stealers, or even kidnappers.
(On that head, though, Sid is another questionable score. To the toys he is a torturer of the worst kind and a villain of the blackest stripe, delighting in his villainy. What does he really do? He plays with toys in inappropriate ways. Meh. He's on the bottom no matter what and a lower or higher score on evil won't change that much.)
Queen Nerissa
ReplyDeleteDisney's Wiki notes that "Narissa was given the best and worst traits of The Queen [Grimhilde], Lady Tremaine, and Maleficent." Fittingly, much of my analysis can be based on that statement combined with your chart, though I don't see much of Lady Tremaine in the categories you've included.
1. Cunning: 8. For the most part, her level of cunning is on par with Queen Grimhilde as she uses many of the same tricks. She has to score slightly higher, however, since the ability to think up, create and utilize a portal to the real world to get your enemy out of your way (rather than simply have her killed by the huntsman) is out of Grimhilde's league. She also uses a manipulative tool which none of the three women upon whom she is based possess - toying with her henchman's hormones.
2. Strength: 9. Add to Grimhilde's repertoire Maleficent's "Dragon Transformation" spell, elemental manipulation (electricity and fire) and the aforementioned portal-making ability and she's pretty powerful - in small groups. Yet, she lacks the global, take-over-the-world sort of power that is demonstrated in Maleficent's kingdom-wide sleep spell, which is why I leave her short of a 10.
3. Evil: 8. While most of the film keeps her on a Grimhilde level of "personal vendetta" evil, the finale is where she really shows a complete disregard for human life in the face of her goals. After transforming into a dragon in a crowded ballroom:
"If I'm to remain queen I'll need a story for when I go back to Andalasia. What about, 'a giant, dangerous monster appeared and killed everyone, and poor Queen Narissa, she just couldn't save them!' "
Compared with that, Grimhilde trying to drop a boulder on the dwarves feels like shooting in self-defense.
4. Plan: 4. A lot like Grimhilde. "Oh, that didn't work? Okay, try this!"
5. Song: 0. Sadly.
6. Able: 8. Like Strength, she's somewhere between Grimhilde and Maleficent.
7. Hench: 6. Like Queen Grimhilde, she's hypothetically got a full kingdom under her command but we only actually see one henchman (not counting the crow) through the entire film. While it's hard to see Wormtail - sorry, Nathaniel, wrong movie - as anything but comic relief, he's actually pretty good at carrying out what he's supposed to do. When Indiana Jones knocks out a guard and steals his uniform, we say he's awesome. When Nathaniel somehow procures uniforms for three different workplaces and acquires (and figures out how to operate) a popcorn vendor's stand/machine (I kinda doubt they have those in Andalasia), we laugh it off? I don't think so.
8. Actor: 3. Susan Sarandon ain't nothin' to sneeze at.
9. End: 4?. I'm going to let you judge on this one, since I'm not quite sure of a thing or two in your rating scale. You say that falling earns you a 2 but Frollo gets a 10. Is it because he falls into a fire? Is it for poetic justice?
Anyway, you can say Narissa falls with a big rock tumbling after her (in imitation of Grimhilde), gets a 2, end of story. Or you can say she gets pushed off a skyscraper, impaled by a tower on her way down (generating a sizable fireball) and explodes into a cloud of sparkly dust on contact with the ground, which could be worth a lot more. I'll give her 4 for the moment and let you decide from there.
10. Preference: Up to you but I'll say 7 because I think she's more awe-inspiring than the folks you have listed as 6.
11. You skipped: No idea why.
12. Sum: 57.
13. Chron: I dunno.
After talking to my Lady, she agrees with you, Steve, that I do not understand Tremaine's evil in its proper light. I will give her a few more points.
ReplyDelete